Ep. 211: The Soulful Renovations of House of Rolison

Co-founders of House of Rolison, Amanda Leigh and Taylor Hahn, grew up on opposite coasts but were both self-described angsty teens. Both had a deep love for art and architecture, choosing different professional paths before they met online and their fates intertwined. Their first date turned into a road trip and then quarantine-based cohabitation. Since starting House of Rolison, they’ve renovated a number of forgotten old homes into warm, elegant, modern beauties. Their complementary strengths and deep reverence for their crafts and trades crew, ensures that each new project has room for magic and a whole lot of soul.

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TRANSCRIPT

Amy Devers: Hi everyone, I’m Amy Devers and this is Clever. Today I’m talking to Amanda Leigh & Taylor Hahn of House of Rolison. House of Rolison is a woman-owned design-build, property development company based in Los Angeles - lead by Amanda and Taylor - partners in life as well as partners in business. House of Rolison carries out avant-garde and innovative housing projects through transforming forgotten about places back into real living spaces.  Their mission is to imagine tomorrow’s habitats and their calling is to preserve a home’s soul. They design homes that are aligned with our time, and yet still true to their environment. And the results are stunning, warm, elegant spaces, with modernized design aesthetics, that still feel connected to their own histories, and landscapes. Only a couple of years into it, they’ve already completed a handful of gorgeous renovations - which you can feast your eyes on at HouseofRolison.com. Amanda has a background in ground-up construction, While Taylor has a background in architecture and software development. Together they complement each others’ talents, but the real magic comes together through a very supportive and collaborative dynamic with each other, and with their 40 person crew of crafts and tradespeople. No wonder their homes have soul… they’re built with love…… here’s Amanda and Tayor…

Amanda Leigh: Hhi, I’m Amanda, I live in Los Angeles, California. I’m a Managing Partner at House of Rolison 

Taylor Hahn: Hi, I’m Taylor, I’m also in Los Angeles and I’m a Managing Partner of House of Rolison and we redevelop old houses. 

Amanda: And we go in and gut and resell houses that have been forgotten about. 

Amy: So the two of you are not only just both in Los Angeles, you’re both in the same house and both managing partners, the only managing partners of House of Rolison, correct? 

Amanda: That is true, that is true. 

Taylor: Very true. 

Amy: It’s very much your thing that you built together. So I’m excited to learn all about that. But before we get into your union and all that you do together through House of Rolison, I’d love to know a little bit about you individually, before you were a team. Where did you each grow up and what did you get into as children and what types of things captured your imagination? 

Amanda: So I’m originally from the East Coast, I grew up in New Jersey and then I moved to the city when I was a teenager. So I mostly grew up in New York. A really big inspiring thing for the creativity around building and structures and all of that kind of stemmed from curiosity about building, more so than design. And I started doing Appalachian Service Project at a young age. It’s through church organizations and schools and it’s where you go to just underdeveloped neighborhoods around the United States and you basically work with a tradesman from each… so we’d have an electrician and a framer and whatever and then all the kids there are basically the hands and helping rebuild people’s houses. 

Amy: Very cool. 

Amanda: Yeah, so that what was kind of a fun way that started my brain working in that way. 

Amy: So as a kid you got to see the guts of homes and how they’re built, but you got to partake in actually helping to construct them? 

Amanda: Yeah. It was a really cool experience. 

Amy: Did you have a specialty, to like the finished carpentry or the reframing or demo?

Amanda: Oh, I wasn’t good at any of it. (Laughter) I was bad at all of it! But you know, I was actually probably more so the HR, I just loved to hang out with the families and kind of learn about them and what they wanted and why they… or why or how they got involved in that process and that was probably really fun and just really gratifying. 

Amy: Okay Taylor, what’s your story? 

Taylor: I’m from Sonoma, so California, Northern California. I’m one of five, so there was always some sort of activity going on. Painting and drawing, that was always where my interests led me. Architecture as well, always very fascinated by that. And my stepfather was actually in construction, so I had exposure to that industry at a pretty young age. I was always surfing the originally Zillow, just for houses, I just found it fascinating and entertaining. 

Amy: What branch of construction was your stepfather in and what kind of exposure did you have…

Amanda: Residential. His whole side of the family, North Bay Construction, that was their whole thing. I was always running around to job sites and seeing what was going on there. 

Amy: So when the teenage years hit and you’re hitting that, I don’t know, that age when angst and rebellion is kind of coming forward because you’re forging your adult identities or trying to figure out what it is that you want to steer yourself toward what was happening for you and how were you expressing your creativity, Taylor? 

Amanda: Oh we were both really angsty teens. (Laughs)

Amy: Were you really angsty teens? Okay, I’m so into it, tell me where did the angst come from? How did you express it and what were you doing with it? 

Amanda: Actually it’s really interesting because my dad worked in computer chips, which was like, I don’t know anything about computer chips, I don’t even know how to work a computer half the time. And my mom worked in corporate America. So it’s really funny because my grandfather was an artist and Taylor and I both have a strong affinity for art and always have, from when we were younger. But we didn’t know where to put it, so we were just, you know, bouncing off the walls and being annoying rebellious kids. Our poor parents, I can’t even imagine. (Laughter) being really into music that was probably terrifying to our parents and all kinds of stuff like that. I used to go to punk rock shows and my mom was like, what in the world is this and what is on your belt? Why are there studs on that? (Laughs) 

Amy: Taylor, what was your angst? What flavor of angst were you expressing? 

Amanda: I feel like you’re much more of an introvert. 

Taylor: Definitely, yeah, I would express myself through painting. I was very into art classes and whatnot and just being submerged in nature. I loved it, that’s where I found my peace. 

Amy: Yeah, can you tell me about how you met each other?

Taylor: This is a good one. 

Amanda: Oh my gosh, it’s hysterical. As I went through my eras and types of building and construction and all the things, I was actually a director of development for a company and we worked between New York and California and a little bit in Colorado. And my friends were like, Amanda, you focus only on work and going out with your friends and nothing else, go on a date with somebody. And I was like, no, I’m so awkward, I’m never going to talk to people (laughs), and also gay women are terrifying and I didn’t know how to kind of do that. So it was really funny, because I’d mostly just been in like back-to-back, long term relationships and was never really like a dater, you know? So my best friend made me download a dating app, I think it was Hinge or something. 

Taylor: Shout out to hinge. 

Amanda: (Laughs) And Taylor was one of two people that I matched with and we literally spoke for a month straight before we’d met, because she was…

Taylor: I was out of town for that month, in Oregon visiting my family. 

Amanda: And then I deleted the app and I was like, I’m going to meet her and we’ll see what happens. 

Amy: How long ago was this?

Amanda: I think like four and a half years ago.

Taylor: About four years ago, yeah. 

Amy: Okay and Taylor, what’s your side of the story, when you got matched with Amanda on Hinge and you were out of town, what was happening? 

Taylor: Yeah, I mean I think at that point neither of us were looking for anything more than casual, or at least we weren’t able to admit that. So we were just chatting back and forth and then we eventually decided we were going to meet when she had a business meeting in town and I was back in Berkeley, that’s where I was living at the time. I was actually doing some software and then we decided to meet up one day and I was extremely nervous. I liked her too much, so I didn’t want to do the whole meet-up thing and then…

Amanda: We were so nervous; I literally chugged a glass of wine before she got there. (Laughter)

Taylor: At that point I was never on like… I wouldn’t go on formal dates and she was like, ‘I’m taking you to dinner or we’re not meeting up.’ (Laughter) I was like okay. 

Amanda: I didn’t want to go and get drinks or do some… you know, I don’t know, I wanted to be able to sit down and have a conversation and she was like, “Okay Miss Formal.” And I was like, ooh, this is gonna be tough. 

Taylor: But I loved it. It wasn’t what I was used to at all, so I could tell she would challenge me in that way. (Laughs)

Amy: So how did you learn that she would challenge you? What was the chemistry like on that first date and was the restaurant a good one? 

Amanda: We never made it to dinner. 

Taylor: We initially met at the hotel she was saying at, we got like a few appetizers and then went to a wine bar. But it was on the premise of doing an actual date. Yeah, we just talked. She was just very different than anyone I had ever talked to or dated. She was on the phone when I first walked up actually and was on an important business meeting, which I later found out she was talking to her friends. (Laughter) But I was like, who is this woman? Yeah, and then we ended up not leaving each other’s side for the next week and then we went on a road trip across the country and then the pandemic happened. 

Amy: Oh wow. 

Taylor: Yeah, it was crazy. 

Amy: That’s kind of an intense beginning. I’m so fascinated, I have another couple that I’m friends with and they always say, if you want to test your compatibility, travel together. I think road trips are also a really fascinating way to travel because there’s so much time to just chat and see the same scenery in the car. How did the road trip go and would you say that really solidified the partnership in some ways? Or was it more the pandemic? You’re stuck together…

Amanda: It was actually… I think the timeline was that we stayed in San Francisco, I ended up being there for a week and we spent like every day together. And then I had to go back to New York for work and I asked her if she would fly to New York and I never drove my car in the city. So I was like, and drive it back to California with me. So she flew in and she finally agreed, reluctantly, to go on this cross-country road trip with me, which was just a long shot excuse to spend more time together. And the day that she landed, they 

Taylor: So we actually started living together was it two or three months? 

Amanda: It was like two and a half months. We’d moved into my parents beach house with my brother, so that’s (laughs) how our relationship started. 

Amy: Whoa!

Amanda: Yeah, we all got real close real fast, we have matching tattoos. (Laughter)

Taylor: Yeah we do. 

Amanda: It was so funny. Yeah, it was really crazy. We ended up going to Delaware …Rehoboth Beach.

Taylor: Never been there in my life. 

Amanda: Taylor and I were upstairs, Patrick was downstairs, we didn’t know each other that well, but at this point I think we’d known each other for like two months and then we were living together and not allowed to speak to anyone else but each other. (Laughs)

Amy: That could have been a make or break moment, the pandemic, when you get that much togetherness and it sounds like it was probably a good thing for the two of you, because here you are! I’m wondering if you can talk to me about how you discovered your collaborative dynamic and your mutual love for construction and renovating, how did that come up? Because at the time you were doing software when you met, right Taylor?

Taylor: Right, so I was consulting for various architectural firms. So I would go to a conference about the built environment and how technology could advance it. And then your company, Amanda, I started working with them a little bit.

Amanda: You were doing software and then also like a little bit of procurement, … she has a really amazing design eye and … it was funny because I feel like for couples, it’s so hard for a lot of people to just kind of be around each other and be kind of just, you know, engulfed in each other at all times. And for us it was like, it’s my best friend, it’s my lover, it’s my partner in life and it was just like, honestly, so fun and it wasn’t scary and we didn’t argue and it was just kind of a nice experience. And a little bit of a soft run working together a little, which was fun. 

Amy: That sounds beautiful. Did you also learn to complement each other pretty quickly?

Taylor: Yeah, 100%. We’ve always had a really good balance between the two. She excels in places that I don’t excel in and vice versa. I’m very analytical and so I like scheduling and the logistics and the nitty-gritty and she’s very high level and gets it done,

Amanda: I don’t write anything down and I try to keep everything in my brain and I just kind of go… I’m full-blown Aquarius. It’s been really beautiful and honestly, who can you kind of go through the process of building a business with that you trust more than your partner, you know? And I think that we complement each other so well because I have kind of a high level understanding of building and structural building, because my background is ground-up construction. And Taylor’s more artistic and structured and type A and so the balance between those two and the fusion between those two kind of allows for so much space to be able to be creative and also play to each other’s strengths and weaknesses. 

Amy: It does sound like a beautiful choreography and a dance that you do together… you had a background in ground-up construction and you were working as a director of development. Is this something that you studied in school, Amanda? Did you know that this is what you wanted to go into? 

Amanda: No, I’m like a horrible school person. (Laughs) It’s actually really funny because I was so intrigued by the process. I actually moved out to Colorado at one point and got on a framing crew, when I was in my early 20s. And I learned about structure by literally doing it, which was terrifying because it was like me and a bunch of men in the middle of winter. 

Amy: Yes! 

Amanda: But it was a really cool experience and then I got a job for a, funny enough, it was a software based construction company, which is such an oxymoron, but they tried and they failed. (Laughs) And I did that and that was… I was more so dealing with clients and contracting and all of that type of stuff. Then I was running three different markets for a construction firm and that was all ground-up construction. 

Amy: Okay, that’s interesting. And Taylor, from teenage years to now, where did you pick up your skills?

Taylor: I’ve always been fascinated in a broad range of topics. But the combination of design and the physicality of building and seeing it transform over time, I don’t know, the skills just have come over time. I’ve learned a ton from Amanda, of course, us spending 24/7 together. 

Amy: Is your design eye something self-taught, or did you study it at any point? 

Taylor: No, all self-taught. I mean I studied architecture for a little bit and I did art classes when I was younger, but it was always something that I kind of developed myself. 

Amanda: It’s pretty wild, because like I’ve been doing this for almost a decade, Taylor has been doing this for a couple of years and she built… she could build anything from the ground up, more so than most… it’s a male dominated industry, so I’ll say ‘most men’ who have been doing this forever, which is pretty wild. 

Amy: Thank you for that insight Amanda, I’ve picked up from Taylor that you have both a love of art and an analytical mind, so that right brain/left brain usually works really well in terms of spatial awareness and building things and understanding the physicality of materials and also the physicality of tools and flow of space. So I guess it’s not surprising at all, but I am glad that you two met and had the pandemic to bond. How long into this love affair did you decide to go into business together and was that because you found a great property and wanted to work on it together? Or was this a little bit more intentional? 

Amanda: It was not intentional. I had been wanting for a long time to kind of get away from what I’d been doing and not anything against that type of structure, but just getting away from working with clients and being able to have more creative freedom. So Taylor and I met with a group of investors who were kind of struggling to figure out how to design and what to do with some of these older homes. And we were like, let’s do one and we’ll see how it goes. So we set up our insurance and did all the things and it was terrifying because (laughter) everything was our choice. Everything was our decision. So we were like, oh my god, what if this tile looks ugly? What if this doesn’t go together? What if… you don’t have anybody checking and balancing you, except for each other. Just all of these funny things where even after doing it for so long, you just question every little bit of it. And we only really had each other to be like, ‘no, I think that looks okay.’ And you just keep going through that process. 

Taylor: It was a big trial and error of what we… and developing our style specifically. It took a few houses, but so much goes on in a single house from start to finish that you know, your style could change throughout the course of one house and develop and get to the place where we are now. 

Amy: When was this first project? Was that in 2022?

Amanda: I today just realized that it’s been one year since we sold the first project of this series that we were supposed to do, which I thought was crazy. So I guess we’d started it about eight months before we sold it and we sold it at the end of March. 

Amy: Wow, and you’re nine, 11, how many projects in at this point? That’s a lot in a year. 

Amanda: So it’s technically been almost two years because that’s when we sold it, not when we started it.  To date we’ve sold eight…

Taylor: And we picked up other houses during that project as well. 

Amanda: Yeah. So I think we’ve sold eight and we have five on the books right now, so it’s a lot of houses. 

Amy: Okay, the first project, as you’re working your way through it, it sounds like there’s a little bit of like checking in with each other to validate your decisions, but also you’re kind of feeling your way. At the end of it, when you’re putting the bow on the front door, not that you actually did that, but when you’re checking it off, (laughs) did you know you had something there? Did you feel a sense of reward and satisfaction.

Amanda: It’s so funny, yeah, I mean that house, we repainted it twice, like we weren’t sure about the color, I mean on the exterior we literally went from white to dark to darker. And at the end of it we were so proud of it. We were so excited because it was a… Tay, when was that house built?

Taylor: it was a 1911 craftsman. 

Amanda: I remember that phrase, and it’s really funny because when we were done, we were like wow, when we got the house it was riddled with squatters, literally I’ve chased people out of that house with a taser.

Amy: Oh my gosh. 

Amanda: Like there were squatters living in the hose.

Taylor: They would light our lockbox on fire and break in and steal the electricity. We learned a lot in that house. (Laughs)

Amanda: Yeah, they stole copper pipes out of the basement, there was like just so many crazy things that happened and when we were done with it we were like, holy crap, it’s such a stunning space and it feels new without, the smells and all of the things that kind of come with that age of house, especially with the distress that was put on it. And it was really incredible because it was kind of the first time that I realized that everything really is fixable. You just have to be patient with it and kind of let it go through its own process. And I really think it was also the first time for Taylor and I that we realized that we kind of had to let the house be what it wanted to be. If we tried to force it into something, it just didn’t work and we’d have to end up redoing that portion of it. And Taylor, we talk about that a lot, it’s something that comes up pretty often. 

Amy: One of the things that really impressed me is that you honor the original architecture while also striking this really beautiful balance of updating it and bringing it into the now, while … trying not to change its original personality. It’s hard to do that sometimes. Especially when you’re doing a bunch of renovation and you’re willing to take out walls and reorganize floor plans, it’s hard to stay true to the essence and that’s something I think you both do really well. Two things. I’m really curious about your most rewarding projects and then I’m also curious about your creative process in terms of when you find a property, how do you know it’s one for you? When you are making choices about how to honor its integrity, but at the same time update it, how do you reconcile that? If you could talk us through your creative process by talking us through a project, I think that would be really interesting. One of your mottos is ‘if a property has no soul, give it one.’ … because some properties don’t have a soul, they might be in a good location or they might have some good structure, but if it doesn’t have a soul it’s going to feel cold and heartless and so giving it a soul…

Amanda: A lot of properties have no soul. 

Amy: I know. 

Amanda: It’s really interesting. Because most people that renovate houses do not do it in one shot, right? So it’ll be this bathroom was done in the 80s and then this part has like more of an art deco vibe. So you kind of go through this piecemeal and you’re kind of taking the pieces apart and then putting it back together and that’s really, I think what we see. So you kind of have to look for like the general essence of the house. What was the architect trying to do? Is this a Spanish, should it be a Spanish? Is this something traditional, is this transitional, can it feel transitional without being a cold modern box? Should we add beams to the ceiling? There’s all these elements in question. Taylor, I think you would speak better on this, but I think Beechwood is probably a pretty rewarding one that was a pretty wild experience for us. 

Taylor: That was a fun one. Yeah, there was a lot of architectural things about it that were interesting and then also bringing back in the Spanish revival elements through the lighting and sourcing the doors and matching the existing doors, there were all of those different things, so that was a very fun project. But that was a Spanish from the beginning, so I feel like that house already spoke for itself, which is different than some of other projects. But because it spoke so deeply to itself already, I think it was easy to kind of delve into that. 

Amanda: We were like okay, this is the box that we are putting it in, but the funny thing about it was, it was really the first time that we were able to work a lot with the architectural salvages and kind of… we were set on… I think that house was built in like the 30s. We were super set on buying light fixtures from that time and matching the door handles from that time and buying things that were reclaimed, that we could refinish. And it was really interesting because it’s almost like if you look up at the lighting and around, it feels a little bit like a time capsule, but it doesn’t feel drab. And it doesn’t feel older and it feels like there’s still a freshness to it. And that was pretty cool because we were able to bring in some Wallace Neff lighting and add a new iron gate and do a lot of these things with the bones of what were already there without pulling too much away from it. 

Amy: It’s beautiful to hear that because I think so much of this soul that you speak to is also honoring the period in which it was built, but maybe with a little bit of license, not necessarily needing to be so rigid with it, but making really meaningful choices about all of the objects and fixtures that become the jewelry and adornment of a home. I also think it’s a whole adventure in and of itself, hunting for these objects and being able to know when the lighting is a match. Out there in the world of architectural salvage, finding the pieces that want to be in that home, it’s a bit of a matchmaking endeavor. And also a little bit of detective work. Is that something that you both enjoy? 

Taylor: Very much so. Yeah. 

Amanda: It’s also cool because a lot of the architectural salvages, we’ve developed such a close relationship with them that they’ll let us take stuff out on consignment and we’re both such visual people, so we have to be like, Taylor, hold this up, let’s see if this looks great in here. And just moving so many objects in and out of the house. We put like, it was like a 5,000 pound, 10 foot round fountain in the front of that property, which was…Terrifying because it was so expensive and we were like, is this going to look absolutely ridiculous? But it was such a showpiece when you came down that driveway, you were like holy hell, where did you get that? (Laughter)

Amy: That must be really fun too, not just for the home itself, but to also find new loving homes for these orphan pieces that are out in the world. I firmly believe that objects have energy and it makes me sad to see orphaned objects that have good energy and they need somebody to help them find their match, their home. 

Amanda: We area a zero waste company. We do have a warehouse full of… tons and tons of things that we should probably get rid of that we haven’t. But at the same time we won’t… like you know, any time we’re taking a house apart and it has original tile or original toilets and sinks and all these things, we will call the architectural salvages and have their teams come and remove them before we start going through our process. 

Amy: I love to hear that!

Amanda: Yeah, it’s really like an homage to how it was built and all of those things and kind of its time period, I think it’s just so important. 

Amy: I used to do construction and some people really enjoy demolition and I do to a certain extent, it’s very satisfying when something needs to go, to just be able to rip it out really quickly. But I would get really literally upset and sick to my stomach when people would destroy perfectly good fixtures, toilets, tile, things like that, when it could have been saved. I know it’s a proposition to save those things, but I really appreciate that that’s something you’re spending your time and energy doing. I’m also really curious about this warehouse. It sounds like an amusement park. Is it organized or is it chaos? 

Taylor: It goes through ebbs and flows. 

Amanda: I mean it wasn’t organized.

Amy: Are you currently living in a place that you’ve renovated or is this a project you’re living in?

Taylor: Both. We never want to sell it, so it’s our home, but we’re currently living through a renovation, so we’re very much living and breathing in our craft. (Laughs) … it’s an amazing property, there’s a lot to do with it. It’s been fun though.

Amy: What have you started with?

Taylor: The carpet, number one. There’s this gorgeous living room downstairs, very big… there’s carpet throughout. We even have carpet in our bathroom, which is…

Amy: That was a weird thing they used to do…

Taylor: So the whole downstairs is done with the flooring. We’re doing the laundry room right now. There’s a bar, like a funky bar in the living room, it’s like a sunken living room with an even more sunken bar. So that’s what we’re working on right now. And then the kitchen is next. Amanda is building her wine room downstairs, so that’s been an adventure as well. 

Amy: What year was the home built?

Taylor: Fifties actually, 1956 I believe and…

Amy: It sounds like a mid-century with the sunken living room and sunken bar area. 

Taylor: Very mid-century vibes, original owners, they were a very interesting couple. A couple who has, from the little I know about them, they have no children, no family, so when they passed all of the proceeds went to charity, there was like seven different charities that were selling this property. 

Amy: Interesting, well I’m glad that it’s in good hands and that you’re taking care of it. How hands-on do the two of you like to get? 

Amanda: Probably more than we should. 

Taylor: Throwing hammer sometimes. (Laughter) 

Amanda: A lot of it, when we’re more hands-on, I think is more so in the finishing stages. Sometimes you have a bad week and you’re starting demo on a house and you just grab one of the hammers and go for it. 

Taylor: That’s my favorite day of the week, it’s when we get to grab a hammer and join the demo crew. (Laughter)

Amy: I understand you’re living in a project; you have five more in the works? 

Amanda: Yeah. 

Amy: In various stages? 

Amanda: Yeah, we also have a friend, a couple who’s a close friend of ours and they’re having a baby very soon, so we decided to help them out too. So we technically have five, plus ours, plus theirs. (Laughs) It’s a little crazy. But we don’t subcontract any work out. Sometimes we’ll subcontract some license trades, but all of our crews are fulltime. So we have about 40 guys that work for us fulltime. 

Amy: So that’s amazing that you’re employing 40 fulltime trades and crafts people. I’m really curious about the balance of the trade labor and also your dynamic with them. It’s an important thing to make sure everybody who is working on the home, especially if you’re imbuing it with soul, they’ve got to build it with love. So that dynamic is crucial. Can you talk to me about that? 

Amanda: We are so grateful for the group of guys that we’ve kind of found and I feel like in this industry there’s this really odd dynamic that normally happens with construction companies where the people actually doing the labor or your foreman or your project managers, they’re really looked at as kind of like your grunt, you know, and not as the reason why this company exists. If they didn’t have the skills and they weren’t able to do the carpentry work and they didn’t handle these things with care, they’re the reason why we’re able to do this. And I think that they know that we feel that way about them. Every time we sell a house we have a barbecue with all of us together and we spend so much time with them that it’s really special. We shower them with gifts and branded House of Rolison things and it’s funny because most construction companies are like, argh, I don’t want to wear this stupid shirt. But the guys love, it’s really fun. 

Amy: I love that for so many reasons. I’ve been on all sides of the equation, as a designer, a crafts person and trade labor and so I know what you’re saying when you say most construction companies treat their trade labor like grunt workers and yet trades people … they have to be such brilliant problem solvers to actually make an elegant solution out of electrical wiring or plumbing or whatever, especially on an old house. And there’s so much skill and experience and expertise that they built up over the years and if you honor that and work with it and they have a sense of pride of craftsmanship, and pride of creative license and ownership and they’re working collaboratively with you, then everybody is able to achieve a much more magical outcome than when they’re just forced into following a recipe because somebody said, “I drew it up and so you have to do what I drew up.” Which frequently doesn’t make sense when you’re in the field. I also think just, as it sounds like you do too, if you’re going to be in business with people and work with them day in and day out, they should be family. There should be a mutual respect. Honoring what everybody brings to the table is the only way to get the best possible outcome for everybody involved, and to keep people around. They need to feel cared for and respected. So I’m really happy to hear that because I’ve always felt like, I’m a little bit on my soapbox now, but I’ve always felt like there’s this arbitrary class distinction between trade labor and creative class.

Amanda: There is. 

Amy: And it’s utter bullshit, it’s like ridiculous and it makes no sense and it’s completely arbitrary. 

Amanda: it drives me crazy. I mean just from a political standpoint, a lot of things that I don’t believe in and we can get into that for probably ever when it comes to just the classing and how all of that work. There was actually a movie I saw recently about it and it blew my mind. 

Amy: What’s the movie? 

Taylor: Origin, I believe.

Amanda: And it’s just about how, you know, societally we class people and it’s either by race, it’s by gender, it’s by sexuality, it’s by so many different things. And if you actually look and unpack that, who came up with this crap? Who decided that? And who decided that you can have the creative liberty to do certain things and other people can’t. These people are supposed to be laborers… it’s funny, because we’ve gotten a lot of heat from people around us for the way that we pay our guys and we’ve stood by that very firmly, that that’s non-negotiable. That they’re entitled to be paid for what they do and how long they’ve been with the company. And we’ve had zero turnover. And some of the guys started doing demo and they started with no skills and you kind of bring them in and you train them and then you figure out what they’re good at and what they excel at and then you kind of push them into that kind of way. I feel like so many of these construction companies, they’ll get a project manager, all these things and then they’ll lose the people and they’ll leave and start their own company. And we’re giving these guys the tools and the space to be able to create and make enough money that they don’t need to do that. And it’s comfortable to stay with us. I mean two of our guys bought new cars this week and they had the biggest smiles on their faces and we love to see that. And that’s amazing and then you see some of these companies and all their guys have broken down vehicles and just look disheveled and you’re like, you’re doing that. You’re perpetuating that in this environment that is nothing to do with who they are as people, you’re creating this. 

Amy: Exactly! And then those people who are not being valued on the job are doing work on homes that you can feel in the energy of that work.

Amanda: Yeah, 100%. 

Amy: I love to hear that you’re taking care of your people and I love to hear about this mutual respect that feels like it’s going on. And I also firmly believe that when you have a dynamic like that, more magic ensues, so that’s one of the reasons I think your projects look so warm and inviting and elevated and delicious. There’s so many transitions that are just so artfully handled, that takes real skill in an existing property and old home, to manage those transitions and materials that flow into another material with a real kind of artfulness. So it’s showing up in your work. You’re clearly doing well; you’ve got more work than you can probably handle. Now with all that you have going on and all the magic you’re creating, where are the challenges? What are you learning right now? What’s giving you a hard time that you know is making you grow, but it still sucks to go through it? 

Amanda: Yeah, there’s a lot of things. (Laughs) 

Taylor: Yeah. 

Amanda: I think it’s also how many we can take on at a time. 

Taylor: Yes, the balance between not burning out, but still taking on enough to keep us challenged and busy and having a good time and for our guys the same. 

Amy: Yeah, what is that magic number? 

Amanda: I think the magic number is four. We’re at five right now. But you know, it’s hard to tell because we’re also renovating our own property in sections right now and we’re helping on our friend’s project right now. So maybe we could do five. It’s just,, we just want to make sure that we have a nice balance between each other and being able to spend time together that’s not consumed with work. And also having our projects and being passionate… it’s honestly the most incredible part, I think, is also that coming from ground up, you’re staring at the same properties for like… you’re staring at the same walls for a couple of years. With these we’re kind of moving through them. We have so many guys that we afford the ability to be able to move through them pretty quickly without sacrificing the work, because our crews are so big. So it’s just keeping it exciting for them, keeping it exciting for us and also having a sustainable balance between how many, so that we keep all of our guys busy and we leave a little space for ourselves. 

Amy: Yes, and what do you do with that little space for yourselves? What are your favorite down-time activities? 

Amanda: We love to go on hikes. 

Taylor: Yeah. 

Amanda: We have a dog that doubles as a horse (laughter)…

Amy: I’m going to need to see a picture of that dog. 

Amanda: She’s like a big, big baby. And we spend a lot of time with friends and family which is really nice I think. We finally convinced my parents that if we build on the lot next door that we also own, that they’ll move out here. Taylor’s family is up north. We have friends come and stay with us a lot because the views are amazing and it’s enough house that we can all kind of stay here together and not feel like it’s crowded, which is honestly something that…

Amy: It’s such a joy to have that. 

Amanda: It’s so special. 

Amy: Yeah, to be able to have people come stay with you, it’s so nice. 

Amanda: Yeah, I’ve never understood people with big houses and then we bought a big house and we were like, oh, okay. I mean it’s terrible to clean and do all those things, but it’s great for everything else. (Laughter)

Amy: So what is on the horizon for House of Rolison, more or are there different types of projects you want to take on or what do you hope for in terms of the health and growth of the company? 

Amanda: I mean I think we’ve found our sweet spot. I don’t think we’ll try to exceed this price point too much because it feels like that middle of the market. 

Taylor: I mean yeah, I think this is a very manageable price point for a large group of people. I don’t ever want to do anything too crazy, maybe pick up passion projects where I’m not the most concerned about not going over budget. I think that would be a lovely thing to do, which Amanda always makes fun of me for. (Laughs)

Amanda: Yeah, Taylor wants to do, she calls it her ‘vanity project,’ She’s like, I want to do a house that we’d blow our whole budget…

Amanda: Just to know that we could sell the house and break even and then have it just be this showpiece. (Laughs) And I’m like…

Taylor: No, it’s not to show anybody else. I

Amanda: Yeah, that would be fun. We also want to do like a beach house for ourselves or you know, do something…

Taylor: We looked at land in Mexico late last year, that would be amazing. 

Amanda: We took a poll with our guys and we’re like, who wants to go down to Mexico for six to 12 months and build a fun property. And they’re all like, “I’ll do it.” And then we were like, wait, but how are we going to do this? How are we going to divide that time? 

Taylor: Yeah, that plan went to the wayside real quick. (Laughs)

Amanda: Yeah, exactly because, you know, the properties are like our babies, you can’t just leave them and expect them to be fine. 

Amy: Yeah. 

Amanda: But there’s so many questions and kind of moving changes on a day-to-day, but honestly, I think that it sounds crazy because this price point is still crazy. But it is kind of the middle market in Los Angeles…

Amy: And when we say ‘this price point,’ we’re talking like, five to eight million? 

Taylor: We’re normally, yeah, like I’d say four to eight million. 

Amy: Okay. 

Amanda: Yeah, I think your entry into the market is that I would say one to two million range and those are hard to do because being able to find properties that are inexpensive enough when you buy them to be able to make a profit on the exit is really hard. And we’re very meticulous with what we put in homes, we’re not going to put in some Home Depot, rinky-dink Amazon whatever because it’s going to bite you later. And it’ll say a lot about our brand. We really try to keep in that middle of the market where it’s still affordable to a lot of people, but at the same time it’s… you still have the flexibility to be creative. And they don’t sit on the market for a long time because there’s enough people that can buy them.

Amy: And do you prefer working in this manner as opposed to let’s say working for a client? 

Amanda: Oh my god yes. 

Taylor: Yes. 

Amanda: If I can help it, I’ll never work with a client again. (Laughs)

Taylor: Amanda is very, very much against it. (Laughter)

Amy: That makes sense, (laughs) it’s hard. 

Amanda: It’s really hard because a lot of people don’t know what they’re asking for and they don’t know what’s possible.

Amy: So much of it is education and managing expectations…

Amanda: They’ll say, ‘I love this tile.’ It’s like I love this tile, install it. Actually I hate that tile, take it out and you’re like, oh my god, we just wasted all this money, all this material and all this time and just that kind of process, I think is… I don’t miss it. (Laughter)

Amy: What’s on the future for Amanda and Taylor? You two personally? Outside of work, what do you hope for, for your union, your lives, your individual lives, your life together? 

Amanda: We’re engaged. 

Amy: Congratulations!

Amanda: Thank you.

Taylor: Thank you. We’re trying to figure out how to have time to plan a wedding. The thought of that is crazy to me, but we’ll have to figure that out at some point here soon. 

Amy: Well, it sounds like you’re planning on a long life together and that’s very exciting. Congratulations to both of you and congratulations on building what sounds like a really fruitful and dynamic business that is more than a business, it’s an extended family and it’s a creative output and it’s a reinvigoration of homes and their souls. And I think that’s important. Rather than tearing them down, I think these homes have earned histories and if you can honor those histories while also giving them a new life, that’s the best. 

Amanda: Yeah, we kind of give them their life back.

Amy: Well, thank you so much for taking the time today, for sharing your story and for speaking with me. 

Amanda:Yeah,thank you so much. We so appreciate it and it was so nice spending some time and chatting with you.

Amy: Hey, thanks so much for listening for a transcript of this episode, and more about Amanda and Taylor, including links, and images of their work - head to our website - cleverpodcast.com. While you’re there, check out our Resources page for books, info, and special offers from our guests, partners, and sponsors. And sign-up for our monthly substack. If you like Clever, there are a number of ways you can support us: - share Clever with your friends, leave us a 5 star rating, or a kind review, support our sponsors, and hit the follow or subscribe button in your podcast app so that our new episodes will turn up in your feed. We love to hear from you on LinkedIn, Instagram and Twitter X - you can find us @cleverpodcast and you can find me @amydevers. Clever is hosted & produced by me, Amy Devers, with editing by Mark Zurawinski, production assistance from Ilana Nevins and Anouchka Stephan and music by El Ten Eleven.  Clever is a proud member of the Surround podcast network. Visit surroundpodcasts.com to discover more of the Architecture and Design industry’s premier shows.

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Taylor (left) and Amanda (right)

Rhodes, photo credit: Gavin Cater

Lloydcrest, photo credit: Nils Timm

Coldwater, photo credit: Gavin Cater

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Clever is produced and hosted by Amy Devers with editing by Mark Zurawinski, production assistance from Ilana Nevins and Anouchka Stephan, and music by El Ten Eleven.

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